GH - Total hardness

Questions and information about water and water quality.
Post Reply
Apple
International user
Posts: 22
Joined: 30 Nov 2008, 08:41
Real Name: Johanna
Location: Turkey

GH - Total hardness

Post by Apple » 01 Dec 2008, 14:46

It seems that though the recommended GH for discus is 8 and less, many people successfully keep and breed their discus in GH 15 or even higher (for example here in Turkey, where in many places GH is around 15).
Can it be, that discus that have been born in these kind of conditions, are more adaptable to higher GH-values?
Or is there still some damage to the fishes ability to breed, stay healthy, grow etc?
Should discus, that have been living their entire life in hard water, be kept in hard water, or should I soften it anyway?
I would be grateful for your experiences, because I'm going to get my discus in a couple of weeks, and our tap water has GH 15. The place that I'm going to buy my discus, also has the same GH, as well the place they have been bred.
The soft-water fishes in my other tanks, such as black neontetra for example, have been just fine in hard water.

User avatar
bucket
Posts: 2951
Joined: 25 Nov 2007, 22:49
Real Name: Jakob Svitzer
Location: Malax, Finland
Contact:

Re: GH - Total hardness

Post by bucket » 01 Dec 2008, 15:57

Hello and welcome :hug1:

In my oppinion, they adapt.

If they are raised in that GH then its should not be any problem :hello2:
Image
Image

Apple
International user
Posts: 22
Joined: 30 Nov 2008, 08:41
Real Name: Johanna
Location: Turkey

Re: GH - Total hardness

Post by Apple » 01 Dec 2008, 17:25

Thank you for recommending this forum, terkuin "Vesipeukalo" tuolta AW:n puolelta :tumme2:

And also thanks for answering my question. A reverse-osmosis-unit would have been next to get on my list, but perhaps I don't need it then :grin:

User avatar
bucket
Posts: 2951
Joined: 25 Nov 2007, 22:49
Real Name: Jakob Svitzer
Location: Malax, Finland
Contact:

Re: GH - Total hardness

Post by bucket » 01 Dec 2008, 17:42

Apple wrote:Thank you for recommending this forum, terkuin "Vesipeukalo" tuolta AW:n puolelta :tumme2:

And also thanks for answering my question. A reverse-osmosis-unit would have been next to get on my list, but perhaps I don't need it then :grin:

I knew it was you! :garv:

Moro vaan :hello2: :)

Maybe someone of the "geeks" will answer better. :hello2:
Image
Image

User avatar
christinag
Posts: 1693
Joined: 04 Feb 2008, 20:50
Real Name: Christina Ghiasvand
Location: Västerås

Re: GH - Total hardness

Post by christinag » 17 Jan 2009, 19:17

Hi guys!

For the fish, hardiness ist not the same as hardiness ... if you get my drift! There is a difference in how the fish are affected by different diluted salts in the water. I would consider KH of greater importance than GH. The calciumkontent is also more important than most other salts, if we are talking about breeding. Other salts have different biological purposes, but dont have a negative effect in low concentrations. The normal "salt" for example, is often used as a medicine. It does not disturb breeding in low concentrations, but replaces Nitrates in the fish-blood, which is a desired effect also.
Apple wrote:A reverse-osmosis-unit would have been next to get on my list, but perhaps I don't need it then :grin:
Here in this process you replace one salt against another. Your water becomes a little "salted". Usually this is not a problem, unless you have really limestone-water ...

Hi from Christina G
Jag är inte en komplett idiot, det fattas några delar

Lennart_L
Posts: 506
Joined: 02 Nov 2008, 21:50
Real Name: Lennart Lindgren
Location: Rättvik

Re: GH - Total hardness

Post by Lennart_L » 17 Jan 2009, 21:57

christinag wrote:Hi guys!

For the fish, hardiness ist not the same as hardiness ... if you get my drift! There is a difference in how the fish are affected by different diluted salts in the water. I would consider KH of greater importance than GH. The calciumkontent is also more important than most other salts, if we are talking about breeding. Other salts have different biological purposes, but dont have a negative effect in low concentrations. The normal "salt" for example, is often used as a medicine. It does not disturb breeding in low concentrations, but replaces Nitrates in the fish-blood, which is a desired effect also.
Apple wrote:A reverse-osmosis-unit would have been next to get on my list, but perhaps I don't need it then :grin:
Here in this process you replace one salt against another. Your water becomes a little "salted". Usually this is not a problem, unless you have really limestone-water ...

Hi from Christina G
A water softening filter traps calcium and magnesium ions and releases sodium ions, but if you use R-O filter there are membranes that traps all molecules and ions bigger than water, resulting in an almost desalted water.
/Lennart

Apple
International user
Posts: 22
Joined: 30 Nov 2008, 08:41
Real Name: Johanna
Location: Turkey

Re: GH - Total hardness

Post by Apple » 21 Jan 2009, 09:44

Thanks guys!

The KH in the tank is 6. I'm a little bit confused still, is that good or bad.
PH is also high, around 7,5-8. I tried to lower it with JBL pH minus, but it didn't have any kind of effect what so ever, probably because of the high KH. There is a lot of mopaniwood (about 20 kg), and I'm hoping they will lower the pH some. I should measure again.. My discus have been bred in the same kind of water-parameters, so I haven't stressed about it so much.
I will get a carbondioxide-unit at some point, but it has to wait a while, since they are very expensive.
If you have comments or tips regarding this tank, please feel free to share!

Lennart_L
Posts: 506
Joined: 02 Nov 2008, 21:50
Real Name: Lennart Lindgren
Location: Rättvik

Re: GH - Total hardness

Post by Lennart_L » 21 Jan 2009, 12:15

The buffer capacity of your water is really big, soft water has less buffer and is easier to make more acid.
/Lennart

Lennart_L
Posts: 506
Joined: 02 Nov 2008, 21:50
Real Name: Lennart Lindgren
Location: Rättvik

Re: GH - Total hardness

Post by Lennart_L » 21 Jan 2009, 20:40

Apple wrote:Thanks guys!

The KH in the tank is 6. I'm a little bit confused still, is that good or bad.
PH is also high, around 7,5-8. I tried to lower it with JBL pH minus, but it didn't have any kind of effect what so ever, probably because of the high KH. There is a lot of mopaniwood (about 20 kg), and I'm hoping they will lower the pH some. I should measure again.. My discus have been bred in the same kind of water-parameters, so I haven't stressed about it so much.
I will get a carbondioxide-unit at some point, but it has to wait a while, since they are very expensive.
If you have comments or tips regarding this tank, please feel free to share!
Wood isn't that good for lowering pH, try peat instead. I support your idea of using a R-O filter.
/Lennart

User avatar
christinag
Posts: 1693
Joined: 04 Feb 2008, 20:50
Real Name: Christina Ghiasvand
Location: Västerås

Re: GH - Total hardness

Post by christinag » 21 Jan 2009, 21:23

@Apple:

Mopaniwood won´t lower your pH-level any. Other kinds of wood will, such as Teak or Jacaranda. Those are the ones sold as "Mangrove roots". Also "Moorkien"-woods, which are roots and branches that have been sunk in marsches for a long time, may affect the pH-level also. The effect of the roots and woods is mild, because of your KH-level. The level as such is not too high, in my opinion, but must not be allowed to become any higher. If you let it sink too low, you will instead have a fluctuationg pH-level, which is not good either. No less than 3-4 is a good suggestion for these type of fish, if you want to keep things natural and workable.

Hi from Christina G
Jag är inte en komplett idiot, det fattas några delar

Post Reply

Return to “Water Quality”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests