Paris Grigny discus show 2015

[yann]

Hello!

I did an article about the Paris discus show 2015.
You will be able to find all the winners in english language if needed. Hope you will enjoy it.

http://www.fanatik-discus.com/2015/03/r ... show-2015/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Best regards

Yann

[SuperAquaMan]

Looks like you had a nice show. But i must say, the judgement on those wild fish was all wrong.
There were so much more good looking discus there.

But hey, what do i know. :Danne&Poddan:

[yann]

Hello!

Yes it was a good first show. Some things need to be improved for sure.
For the results in wilds, always the same debates... For me it is impossible to judge a fish wthout been at the show...
It is like if we say that Hussein bolt do not need to run... Everybody knows he runs very fast... but if he is not in a good day... he don't win.
For discus, it is quite the same... i also saw very good wilds, but on "D Day"... and this is one of a point been judged...
We could talk and debate long time about this for sure.... so many aspect could be discussed.

But always interested

Yann

[AmirA]

Don't know about you, but the rest of the world calls him Usain Bolt.

Also, it's a terrible way to compare things. A runners top speed differs from day to day, and even from hour to hour. I hope your fish doesn't change the way they look from hour to hour.
A good judge should see the potential of a fish. What I mean by that, is that the judges should foresee how beautiful a fish can look in the future.
And unfortunately most of the judges knows only domestic fish. They almost always judge by the colors the fish show at the competition. This is wrongly applied on wild fish. I think most people (obviously not the judges) knows that wild fish that have travelled a long distance need a lot of time to show their best colors. Perhaps those judges should educate them selves on how wild discus should look like, what shape of the body they should have etc etc....

Well, I hope you are better educated at your next show

[kaj.p]

Hello Yann and thanks for the input. This time my Schedule had no space for Paris. I hope the show next year will fit me better. Then the discussion about wilds seems to be a never ending story. But i know there are some toughts out there to make changes. Then i dont mean the way they are doing in italy and skip the Wilds in favor for F1 and F2. In my opinion that a big step backwards.

[Bosse]

I agree with Kaj about not to have wilds in a Championship. To use F1 and F2 after wild parents instead of wild is not to go forward.

I don´t agree with Amir about judging wilds. As a judge you have to see how the fish is at the moment the judging is going.
They absolutely look better the longer time they have been in the show aquarium. This is the same with the domestic discus.

I have allways said that the judging should take place in the evening before the last opening day so the fishes have become more happy. If the judging at our shampionskip in Malmö last year had been on Saturday evening the winner in the wild class perhaps had been numer three - not one, not two. I promise.

[yann]

Hello!

Don't know about you, but the rest of the world calls him Usain Bolt.

Also, it's a terrible way to compare things. A runners top speed differs from day to day, and even from hour to hour. I hope your fish doesn't change the way they look from hour to hour.
A good judge should see the potential of a fish. What I mean by that, is that the judges should foresee how beautiful a fish can look in the future.
And unfortunately most of the judges knows only domestic fish. They almost always judge by the colors the fish show at the competition. This is wrongly applied on wild fish. I think most people (obviously not the judges) knows that wild fish that have travelled a long distance need a lot of time to show their best colors. Perhaps those judges should educate them selves on how wild discus should look like, what shape of the body they should have etc etc....

Well, I hope you are better educated at your next show

Amir... Sorry, for mister Bolt, next time i will check on google his exact name

In a show, you don't judge a "potential"... sorry... but you judge what is presented to you at the moment of judgement...
It is also the work of the owner to train his fish for the show and prepare it to be in good condition for the good moment...
I'm sorry but this is a fact...
It is also a way to congratulate the work of the owner... take care his fish... etc...

My fish (as yours) can change the way they look from hour to hour if i (or you) don't take care very well about them...

I took this comparaison with this runner to explain ONE point of judgement... Can you explain me how you judge an hidden fish Amir? or even judge its "potential"?

Thank you for your encouragement... i will be more educated for the next time

Hello Yann and thanks for the input. This time my Schedule had no space for Paris. I hope the show next year will fit me better. Then the discussion about wilds seems to be a never ending story. But i know there are some toughts out there to make changes. Then i dont mean the way they are doing in italy and skip the Wilds in favor for F1 and F2. In my opinion that a big step backwards.

You welcome Kaj :Danne&Poddan: i would be happy to meet you in a discus meeting. Last time, we didn't took time to speak... it was long time ago now!!! too busy with our camera...
Yes i agree, no ending story...
But i think we can debate and talk together without throw bad words as i could read here and there...
I'm sometimes surprise how "expert" can judge a fish they didn't saw in reality... and most of all... without seen ALL the other fishes in the category...
Maybe they don't remember how a show is organised...

I agree with Kaj about not to have wilds in a Championship. To use F1 and F2 after wild parents instead of wild is not to go forward.

I don´t agree with Amir about judging wilds. As a judge you have to see how the fish is at the moment the judging is going.
They absolutely look better the longer time they have been in the show aquarium. This is the same with the domestic discus.

I have allways said that the judging should take place in the evening before the last opening day so the fishes have become more happy. If the judging at our shampionskip in Malmö last year had been on Saturday evening the winner in the wild class perhaps had been numer three - not one, not two. I promise.

I agree your point of view Bosse, but owners had time to bench in their fish. Some bench in early... and some forget to explain to everybody that they bench in very late their fish...
Here is an other exemple of the "owner touch"... you want a well acclimated fish? First, bench in as soon as you can!...

I think for wilds it would be better to maybe give them more time before been judged. But this will not avoid the debates...

First of all, because you judge different kind of fish in a same category!

May i have all your opinion?
A perfect "commun" brown VS a not perfect shaped blue with perfect pattern hidding in its aquarium?
witch deserve the best prize?

May we judge the rarity....? the potential??? i think you understand what i mean.

I think the best way is first to judge each wild in its category. Blue vs blue, brown vs brown etc...

But.... Have we got enough inscriptions to go in this way???


May i have your opinion Kaj and Bosse about the pure wild vs F1 discus for competition?


To finish, I think we all should think about DISCUS more then all "political point of view" i'm used to read...

Hope my english is not too bad, if there are misunderstanding, hope you will forgive me...

Yann

[AmirA]

Thanks Yann for your answer. I didn't mean to be rude, just wanted to give my opinion about the issue. Some people obviously are sick and tired to read about this (and read my words), but in my world, discussions very often lead to some good things in the end As long as discussions are kept with mutual respect, I don't see any negative sides of it.
Also, I think your english is perfectly fine, we understand each other

What I mean by potential is to not only focus on the colors you see the day of judging, but try to foresee the true color of the fish. It can be hard, but I know that it's not impossible. The main problem is that judges tends to focus much more on colors than other things, e.g. the shape of the body. Last year in Malmö, we had a winner that shouldn't be a winner. Perhaps better colors than some of the others, but the shape of the body was absolutely not the best. In my world, that is evidence enough for the fact that judges mostly looks at the colors.
And yes, it is hard to judge a fish if the fish hides. But perhaps judging should take place over a longer time period. Maybe then judges can have more time to do their job. I think that is a bad excuse.
Also, you had Heiko over there. My personal opinion is that the judges should listen more to him, especially when it comes to wild discus. He is arguably one of the most experienced people when it comes to wild discus. It's maybe to much to hope for, but I think he should be the head of judges all around the globe. But that's just me

I must also admit that this issue is quit complicated. But again, without discussions I think no one can improve their work. I believe we can always be better.

[tonysdiskus]

I agree with Kaj about not to have wilds in a Championship. To use F1 and F2 after wild parents instead of wild is not to go forward.

I don´t agree with Amir about judging wilds. As a judge you have to see how the fish is at the moment the judging is going.
They absolutely look better the longer time they have been in the show aquarium. This is the same with the domestic discus.

I have allways said that the judging should take place in the evening before the last opening day so the fishes have become more happy. If the judging at our shampionskip in Malmö last year had been on Saturday evening the winner in the wild class perhaps had been numer three - not one, not two. I promise.

I couldn't wrote it better than Bosse !

I totally agree !!

[Bosse]

Yann - as you discribe about the Brown and the Blue I presumably woul have given the highest Points to the Brown. It depends on so many factors.

In the wild categorys my opinion is that we always should try to have three classes based on the species Symphysodon discus, Symphysodon haraldi and Symphysodon aequifasciatus.

If there is a class with F1 from wild they should definitily not be together with wilds.